Jim Lenz, Host:
50 years that’s how long today’s guest has been solving problems, teaching hard lessons and helping grain facilities avoid costly mistakes. From bucket elevators and dual drives to the right way to size a project, Jeff Schwab has seen it all In this episode of the Whole Grain Podcast. You’ll discover the golden rules for investing in equipment, the hidden traps that drain budgets and the modern maintenance mindset that keeps operations running strong. The Whole Grain podcast. You’ll discover the golden rules for investing in equipment, the hidden traps that drain budgets and the modern maintenance mindset that keeps operations running strong. Whether you’re new to the industry or a seasoned pro, Jeff’s wisdom will make you think twice before your next big equipment decision. Let’s get started. Hello and welcome to the show. Welcome, welcome to the Whole Grain Podcast. We use this podcast platform to explore the people, innovations and trends shaping the grain handling and processing industry.
Jim Lenz, Host:
The Whole Grain Show brings grain professional listeners together from 94 countries from around the world. My name is Jim Lenz, your host of the show and the Director of Global Education and Training at GEAPS. We’re the mission of the Grain Elevator and Processing. Society is to champion, connect and serve the global grain industry and our members At GEAPS. We work to be the global community and thought leader for the grain industry, which feeds and fuels the world. Today we’re turning our attention to right-sizing, reliability and return on investment smarter equipment choices for grain facilities. Today’s guest knows the grain industry from the ground up. Literally At just 15 years old, Jeff Schwab was pulling night shifts at his local mill while finishing high school.
Jim Lenz, Host:
After completing a vo-tech program in drafting and design, he went on to a 50-year career that spanned drafting, sales, training and field troubleshooting. Jeff spent more than two decades at Schlagel and another 16 years at GSI InterSystems, retiring as a product specialist for material handling equipment. Along the way, he’s taught at service schools, mentored at Jeep’s hands-on training program at Kansas State University and built a reputation for turning hard-earned experience into practical wisdom. In this episode, jeff shares the golden rules for investing in equipment, avoiding costly mistakes and adopting a maintenance mindset that keeps facilities reliable. Whether you’re new to the grain industry or seasoned pro, you’ll walk away with insights you can use right away. And finally, we want to turn this episode into an action item. I’ll share five reflection questions at the conclusion of this episode. I encourage you to use these questions as a springboard for conversation and growth for you and your team. All that and more coming up next.
Jim Lenz, Host:
Jeff Schwab, it is exciting to have you on this show. You have been involved with the JEEP program, the hands-on training for the operation and maintenance of conveying equipment. You’ve been a veteran. I can’t believe this, jeff. It says 50 years in the grain industry. It’s so exciting to have you on the show. Thank you for being a guest on the Whole Grain Podcast. Thanks, jim. Very happy to be here Now. Jeff. I’ve got to ask you’ve seen this industry from just about every angle what first inspired you to stay in the green industry so long?
Jeff Schwab:
Honestly, inertia. I guess If you’d told me at 15 years old that I was going to be in this industry for the next 50 years, I’m sure I’d have run screaming in the opposite direction. Didn’t really dawn on me, honestly, until years later that I’d somehow managed to stumble onto my dream job, and this is what I was really born to do.
Jim Lenz, Host:
So thankfully it worked out. Oh, that is so great to hear. Today we’re talking about right sizing and reliability and ROI smarter equipment choices for grain facilities. Let’s start really big picture and then get a narrowing of our focus. Why are equipment decisions so critical for grain facilities today?
Jeff Schwab:
Two reasons that I can think of as things have changed over time, and one of those is that equipment is just so big now. I remember in my early days when I sold my first 20,000 bushel an hour bucket elevator, thinking this is ridiculous. Nobody needs that much capacity. And things are just so much larger now and so pricey that one little small decision can make a lot of dollars difference. And everything changes so fast, just like your cell phone as soon as you get one. It’s almost out of date that the right technology changes. So those things make decisions much more important in today’s market.
Jim Lenz, Host:
From your perspective, where do facilities most often overspend or misallocate their funds?
Jeff Schwab:
Because of things involved with what we just discussed, especially the technology end of it, people end up getting things that they don’t really need, spending a lot of money on stuff that they’re never going to use, and that’s part of why I try to preach educating yourself about what you’re getting into and asking questions. Communicate with people. The information is out there. You just got to find it and spend your money wisely Makes sense.
Jim Lenz, Host:
What kind of mindset should managers bring when they’re evaluating upgrades or new investments?
Jeff Schwab:
You need to have an open mind when you get into something like that. You need to start early because you’re going to have to invest some time. But I wish I had a nickel for all the conversations I’ve had on job sites from elevator folks who decided later I wish I’d had this feature and when explained that it could have been available at a worthy price, well, we should have had that discussion before rather than after. Right, so plan some time ahead of time. Do some research, look at what you’re buying, talk to the suppliers, your contractors, talk to them about the options that you want and make sure that you put your money in the right place.
Jim Lenz, Host:
Let’s get specific. One area you’ve mentioned in our earlier conversations is liner material for conveyors. What are the main options and how should facilities decide what’s best for them?
Jeff Schwab:
There’s a plethora of liner materials that are available and the type of conveyor would dictate, probably, what liners you use. We could be talking about drag conveyors, belt conveyors. There’s lots of conveyor types available and liners are used everywhere. But it comes down to making a choice about the job that you’re going to do and how long you need it to last, about the job that you’re going to do and how long you need it to last, and the type of liner you would use is dictated by cost, about wearability, where it’s going, how you’re going to mount it. There are so many things involved that you can’t pick the right material for every application.
Jeff Schwab:
If it was a drag conveyor, those liners are almost always AR steel. It’s about the only thing that works. There are different grades. The harder they are, the harder the steel, the longer the liner is going to last. It’s also more expensive and harder to work with. If you were working, say, with downspouting square spouts, you could have a urethane liner, maybe some ceramic tile liners. Again, the longer the liner lasts generally, the more expensive it’s going to be. In how it’s installed, the type of product it’s installed on, whether it’s a firm foundation, whether it’s a light sheet metal, that will also control what kind of liners you can put in there.
Jim Lenz, Host:
Another point you raise is right-sizing projects. What happens when a facility overbuilds or underbuilds?
Jeff Schwab:
The classic example that I can think of where everyone in the neighborhood knows if you’ve underbuilt your receiving station, is when the trucks are all lined up on the highway at harvest time, right? So that’s an obvious situation. But maybe you limited that because that fits your business flow and that’s all you want to handle. So just because it isn’t right for one guy doesn’t mean it isn’t right for you. So again, looking at the vision that you have in mind for your business, communicating that with your suppliers, making sure that everybody’s on board with what you want, that’s what really counts.
Jim Lenz, Host:
And when you overbill.
Jeff Schwab:
You’re out of money Happens to me all the time.
Jim Lenz, Host:
Bucket elevators are always a hot topic. Let’s start the debate around dual drives. What should people know?
Jeff Schwab:
That dual drives are a very viable option. This comes into play when a bucket elevator drive is sized over what’s economically been a good choice for a single drive on a leg. You get those normally up to about 150 or 200 horsepower. You can get a single shaft mount drive which is by far the most economical choice for your bucket elevator. But above that horsepower you have to look at a different type of gearbox or you can look at two drives.
Jeff Schwab:
A typical example, say a 40,000 bushel bucket elevator that’s 175 feet high. You need 300 horsepower. So you can’t really get that in a single shaft mount. You can either use 250 horse shaft mounts or you need a big single, 300 horse drive. So you need to communicate with your electrical suppliers, with your mechanical contractor, making sure how the tower is going to fit the drive mounting and having all those conversations back and forth to make sure what’s going to work for you. But the point is some people don’t understand the concept of the dual drive. Each dual or a single has its own sets of pros and cons and working out those things to see what works best in your system is the point here. But a dual drive is a very viable option. Many people have used them successfully.
Jim Lenz, Host:
You mentioned horsepower, so high horsepower drives are another area where mistakes get made. What risks should facilities avoid there?
Jeff Schwab:
High horsepower drive. Issues in my have generally been about lacks of communication with your local electrical co-op or wherever you get your power from. If you have limits as to inrush currents, if you’re going to have a lot of high horsepower equipment on your site, say grain dryers, or if you’re doing some processing hammer mills, that kind of thing, big legs those high horsepower drives. If you need big inrush current, your local electrical supplier may have some problems with that.
Jim Lenz, Host:
I’m thinking some listeners right now may be thinking about current limiting devices and soft starts. When do they make sense and in your mind? When do they make sense and in?
Jeff Schwab:
your mind. How do they help operations? The place that I’ve seen that come into play most often is in rural areas. A common number that I’ve seen is any motors over 40 horsepower. In some smaller electrical co-op areas they may force you to use a soft start or some other current limiting device so it limits that inrush of current that you experience when you start up a three-size motor. The motor on your bucket elevator, for instance, is capable of producing 250% of its normal torque on a short inrush just to start up a new load. But that’s what the electrical co-op is trying to limit. Is that voltage spike when somebody starts something up. So they want you to use what we’ll call a soft start, which is a device that limits that inrush of current, and for most pieces of equipment that’s not a big deal. They can start up slowly.
Jeff Schwab:
But one example where that absolutely does not work is if you have a bucket elevator that’s equipped with a backstop, and if you don’t know what that is, a backstop is an anti-rotational device you put in your gearbox so it prevents the elevator from rotating backwards.
Jeff Schwab:
So let’s just say you’re running your bucket elevator one day during a thunderstorm and you get struck by lightning and the power goes out. The elevator is running full with grain and it’s shut off. Now the backstop is holding all the grain in the buckets and in order to get that leg restarted you have to have that 250% of startup torque that the motor is capable of. But if you put a soft start on it, like the electrical utility said, you can’t get that inrush of current that you need to start the leg. So you had to make a choice about whether you had a backstop or a soft start in your current area and if you weren’t having those conversations with both the co-op and with your elevator supplier and neither knows what the other is doing you could end up with the wrong combination of stuff. And it’s not that anyone there did anything wrong, but you may still end up with a package of components that doesn’t work if you weren’t having all those discussions.
Jim Lenz, Host:
Ultimately, it’s not just about one piece of equipment. How do all the pieces tie together for safe, reliable operation?
Jeff Schwab:
That’s a great thing and a lot of people in the Millerite construction area are very happy that that’s not an easy thing to do. That’s a science and an art and I don’t want to give away anybody’s secrets. Of course, the reason really answers to those questions, but that’s a very important part of it for sure is getting them all to work together.
Jim Lenz, Host:
You just provided some great insights on bucket elevators and drives. I want to shift a little bit more to maintenance and reliability. Jeff, you often talk about a modern maintenance mindset. What do you mean by that?
Jeff Schwab:
To me, that’s a combination of research, of experience, of your own records, based on what it does, keeping in mind the new technologies that are available today, but not being a slave to them and doing everything that you’re told. You still have to be intuitive, use your resources as best you can. I’d like to combine all of those things and do the thing that you think works best, if there’s a right plan for everybody.
Jim Lenz, Host:
Good philosophy, for sure. And how do smart investments up front reduce downtime and risk over the long run?
Jeff Schwab:
We’re going to talk about some examples coming up here where we’ve avoided doing some things in some of these other discussions, like the ones about liners, A lot of the components in your system. Just doing that research up front and making sure you invest your money where you really need it is a really important part of the whole process.
Jim Lenz, Host:
Yeah, let’s move to lessons from the field. I would imagine, with years of experience, vast knowledge of gained understanding of concepts and relationships and all the skills you have. But you’ve been to a lot of facilities, had tons of conversations. This is, I think, a really important part to help our listeners. Jeff, you’ve spent so much time troubleshooting really in the field. Can you share a memorable example where a quality mistake was avoided?
Jeff Schwab:
I’d love to. I have a personal favorite there. I had a great opportunity some years ago to visit a co-op that was planning a very large new expansion with some storage and some grain handling equipment, and I was given an opportunity to meet with the folks at the co-op and their contractor to talk about the equipment that they wanted to buy and they had specified in their list of chain conveyors that they specifically wanted all of the pit conveyors to be oversized. And I asked them about that and they explained to me why they wanted it. And I explained to them that they were doing it for the wrong reason and we got into kind of a discussion we’ll call it about why that was so and I’d offered to take them out to the local elevator and prove to them that they were wrong and we promptly did that.
Jeff Schwab:
What they were trying to do was oversize the conveyor to make sure it got adequate capacity, because they thought they were eliminating a problem that they were currently having, when the size of the conveyor wasn’t the problem at all. It was a constriction downstream that was caused by an undersized transition and they were about to spend a whole bunch of money to fix a problem that they would not have addressed at all. So just again, the whole communication part and asking questions in this case was a big deal. It saved us the chance to spend that money where they could use it better.
Jim Lenz, Host:
Oh, very nice, Very helpful for you and actually digging in asking questions, inquiring and then working together.
Jeff Schwab:
It was a big win for everybody, that’s for sure.
Jim Lenz, Host:
Any other lessons from the field, any other examples you want to share? There’s so much investment in these new projects.
Jeff Schwab:
Yes, I have another example of a co-op that was doing an addition to add a train loading system to their current elevator and they’d been working with their local electric co-op who’d given them a pretty firm number of horsepower that they couldn’t exceed. That was all that was available in the current electric grid and they wanted to be able to load trains at 40,000 bushels an hour. But they had to have it so tall and there just wasn’t enough horsepower to do what they wanted. But the next, smaller set of equipment at 35,000 wasn’t enough to get the trains on the time they needed. So through a lot of discussion we ended up with kind of a weird set of equipment that like 38,000 bushel an hour or something.
Jeff Schwab:
We had to make some new designs but it worked in their horsepower limit, in their budget. It worked in everything else. It wasn’t a huge project for the manufacturer but a little bit of discussion turned everything into be exactly what they wanted. So it was a little out of the norm. But in communicating exactly what the limits were and giving everybody input, we all got together and it worked out great.
Jim Lenz, Host:
Oh, awesome, what a great story. Let’s shift from lessons from the field of teaching and advice. I can’t believe you spent 50 years in the green industry, Jeff. That doesn’t seem possible. You said you started at age 15. I’m just real curious about that. Tell me more.
Jeff Schwab:
I was working night shift at the local mill, did that for my last couple of years of high school and then two years of vo-tech after that. So I was a busy guy Very nice.
Jeff Schwab:
So on teaching and advice, Jeff, you’ve spent years teaching, mentoring others, in the heads of people who are out there which is why I am just such a strong believer in organizations like Jeeps, where you can get together with other individuals out there. For people starting out in the industry especially, there’s people out there that know what you need to know. You just need to get the connections and figure out ways to get that out of them, and I’ve learned so much from some of the old salts in the industry along the way that I sure enjoy the opportunity to pass on anything that’s useful along my way as well.
Jim Lenz, Host:
Fantastic, so knowledge sharing so critical in the industry, isn’t it?
Jeff Schwab:
critical in the industry, isn’t it? Absolutely yeah, there’s just so few places and, as those who move on take the information with them, it’s sure nice to be able to share it before we go.
Jim Lenz, Host:
And for the young professionals just starting out, what’s your best advice?
Jeff Schwab:
Don’t be afraid to step in when you see an opportunity that says I think I could help here. Ask questions of people. Don’t be afraid to be a pain. Sometimes, like I did, probably have a few incidents where you get accused of being a young kid that doesn’t know anything and you know you should leave this to somebody else. But you got to start somewhere. You have to learn.
Jim Lenz, Host:
It’s not easy for anyone, so yeah, people in the green industry generally very helpful people and most people want to pass it on. So your advice is to ask questions right and don’t be afraid to do that. It’s part of learning and growing, isn’t it?
Jeff Schwab:
You never stop. And if I, if I had one thing that I would say the education never stops, and one of the things that I love most about teaching is that it opens up conversations for others to share, and I keep learning along the way, too, so that’s a lot of fun.
Jim Lenz, Host:
Yes, that’s right. In fact you’ve been one of the instructors for the Chiefs, kansas State University, hands-on training for the operation maintenance of conveying equipment. It’s at the IGP Institute, the International Gradients Program at Kansas State, in one of our recent hot training episodes.
Jeff Schwab:
We had one of the attendees who came back for a second round after he’d been through it some years before, and when he came back through the second time he reminded me that one of the things that I’d taught him the first time there was a very successful piece of information for him along the way and he’d used it several times since then very successfully and it was one of the most rewarding experiences that I’d had as a teacher, knowing firsthand that I had helped this guy along the way. That was awesome.
Jim Lenz, Host:
That is fantastic. Thank you for pointing that out. Yeah, I can imagine that is a special feeling For those who are interested in registering or finding out more information about the Jeeps and K-State hands-on training for the Operation Maintenance of Conveying Equipment. Just go to jeepscom, g-e-a-p-scom, go to the Events and Meetings tab right in the middle, scroll down and you can go to Conveyor Training. When you click on that, you can get more information about that.
Jim Lenz, Host:
The hands-on training for the operation and maintenance of conveying equipment has a description. It’s taking place December 9th through the 11th of the year 2025. And then there’s another one in spring and that’s from May 5th through the 7th as well. Again, this is at the K-State University IGP Institute, international Grains Program Institute and that’s in Manhattan, kansas. There’s five on-site modules. Each module is a half a day. You’re with a small group and every half a day you move to a different one. There are five of them, so that’ll take you to two and a half days. Module one is on distributors. Module two screw conveyors and bin sweeps. Module three chain or drain conveyors. Module four is bell conveyors. Module five is bucket elevators. There’s a lunch, provided there’s snacks, provided there’s binders of resources that you can take to use beyond that and digital resources as well. Just check that out on the website. Thank you so much for serving as instructor.
Jeff Schwab:
Jeff it’s a pleasure, I really enjoy that.
Jim Lenz, Host:
I was there, I went through it. One person asked a question. That just creates great generative dialogue and that’s part of the great thing about teaching, learning and mentoring and doing hands on training or even at your own facility. So, jeff, as we wrap up here, it’s been such a valuable conversation. If you could share one golden rule for investing in grain equipment just one thing you’d want every listener to remember. What would it be?
Jeff Schwab:
That there isn’t one, and everything that we’ve talked about education and learning I guess that’s probably the golden rule is that no one knows everything and you have to keep learning and you just keep asking questions and doing the right thing. The process is the key going through and doing all that, and you will be successful with that. It’s the right thing. The process is the key going through and doing all that, and you will be successful with that.
Jim Lenz, Host:
It’s the right way to do things. Fantastic, jeff. Thank you so much for joining us. It’s been a great pleasure.
Jim Lenz, Host:
I appreciate the opportunity that wraps up today’s episode of the Cheap School Grain Podcast. A big thank you to Jeff Schwab for sharing his journey and 50 years of grain industry wisdom with us today. Your insights on right-sizing projects, avoiding costly mistakes and adopting a modern maintenance mindset are lessons every facility can benefit from and to our listeners. Take a moment to reflect on what you’ve heard. I’d like to leave you with a few questions to reflect on and even discuss with your teams. Where might your facility have overspent or underspent on recent equipment decisions? Have you ever seen a project that was overbuilt or underbuilt, and what impact did it have? What kind of maintenance mindset does your team rely on Preventative, reactive or something in between? How does your workplace encourage knowledge sharing? And, most importantly, if you apply Jeff’s golden rule for investing in grain equipment, what decision would you revisit first? I encourage you to use these questions as a springboard for conversation and growth with you and your team.
Jim Lenz, Host:
If you’d like a deeper dive, as a grain industry professional GEAPS offers resources like the hands-on training program. We have over 25 online and on-demand courses and a growing library of podcast episodes and interactive webinars. A digital grain industry glossary, a video library comprised of over 200 videos searchable by topic and keyword, a program for those who are new to the industry and those who are veteran we have the credentialing program as well and local GEAPS chapter information and activities, all designed to help grain professionals learn, grow and connect. And don’t forget about the biggest and best event in the grain industry GEAPS Exchange. Be sure to visit geaps. com to explore more. That’s G-E-A-P-S dot com. My name is Jim Lenz, the Director of Global Education and Training at the Grain Elevator and Processing Society. Have yourself a great day and thanks for listening to Whole Grain.
